Friday night philosophy.

Comments

Hey Snowy,

my Dad used to deliver bread and I remember him saying once "People gotta eat. They will always need bread." When you see disasters like Zimbabwe I can't help thinking a baker is more important than a pollie in a collapsing society.

But on the other hand a thoughtless President is much more dangerous. I guess it all comes down to the day you do the measurement and if your basic needs are met.

I hope this makes sense. I'm on my second glass and tea has not been delivered yet. I'm in Geelong and I feel hot after sundown. I must be pissed.

I must be pissed.

Then you're in the right frame of mind to read FNP, Pete. It doesn't make sense to anyone who's sober. And here's to Saint Johnny W...

The only intellectual politicians I've seen for a long, long time are Obama and Kevvy. More power to their elbow.
[this is good]
Very good.
I hope the Yanks get it right this time. No one deserves to put up with bad leadership for 3 terms. Even if it is self inflicted.

The chicken tandoori has done the trick. I'm getting colder.

On motivation, those who enter politics for honorable reasons often get tainted by the greedy behavior of others and folk expecting more of the same. That's why I hate the saying "whoever you vote for, a politician will win". All they have to do is look a little harder. I thought Bush was obvious the first time around. 2nd time even more so.
I don't know how to start.. i never post comments ever.. i better keep it short..

i believe we are nothing, originally, the reality is where we can see, if i might put in words, the deepest root of one's self, the fundamental of the natural mind, empty, clean, and unpolluted. We are all wrapped up in this materialized world, conceptualized by human beings, generation from generation, so far from the basic, once i found this breakthrough not long ago i am currently back to the basic. Back to the nothingness, the absolute reality. But only in the mind, which is the best thing i've come to achieved to live this life in this already corrupted world.

We just need to survive and do the right thing now
I hope they get it right too, Pete. In the meantime, we can only shout our truths from the rooftops. You never know, someone might just be listening.
I'm gratified that you saw fit to comment now. I think we have something in common in our outlook on this world. I'd like to see you post some thoughts on your blog.
What we can do is to keep in touch then :) Your about me section just made me happy. Not much can achieve this.
Just as long as it doesn't hurt. I remember seeing a Southerner on TV saying someone from the UK had rung him up and said "Don't vote for Bush." His attitude was "nobody tells me what to do" so he was voting for Bush regardless of the damage it was going to cause.

You would think self interest would run high on his list but obviously not. I think the idea is "We are so strong as a country we can even let a fool run it for 2 terms." Now they have to find their feet economically after a wasting their time in Iraq. Maybe the $$$ don't count but surely the wasted lives was too high a price to pay.
I suppose I'm what one could clumsily call a Christian Universalist. In any case, I think we do a lot more permanent good by improving the quality of life for not just as many people as we can reach, but any environment whatsoever we can reach- even if it's the coral reef.

Raging against things- that's mostly futile. There are some cases in which it's justified (fighting Hitler being the first one that pops into mind) but mostly... futile. The thing that astonishes me the most about Christianity in particular is that it has fixated on the one thing that Jesus warned us against the most- eradicating sin. Never in the entirety of the Bible did God ever command us to be sinless- instead, he commanded us to make amends. To love and care for each other. Jesus himself said that if you don't love your neighbor and love your enemy, the rest is useless. So why aren't Christians loving other people? Loving the environment? Taking care of that which we possess? It boggles the mind.

God gave us the universe and each other as our inheritance, and (to be slightly vulgar) we dropped our pants and crapped on it. Badly done, humanity. Very badly done.

(But- Great post, Snowy. Very great post!)
I have come to the conclusion, from watching our politicians in the UK, that politicians are mainly pondscum. With a few notable exceptions they are in it not to improve society but to improve their own personal circumstances and financial status. They lie and they cheat and they scheme and they try to fool the electorate into believing them in order to get the public to accept their appalling ideas. Paradoxically this sort of ego-maniac is exactly the sort of person who can do immense damage if given a bit of power - hence the mess we know find ourselves in, not only in the UK but also the US and Russia. My philosophy - cynicism. It's possibly not healthy but it's all I've got!

This is pretty darn good T. You didn't quite express it this way over at my blog, and truth be told, I thought you were being just a bit facetious. But, I love this comment, because there is alot of value and depth to it. Thanks.

As for you,Snowy, my friend--- what can I say about this post? It's so wonderful, in so many ways. I'm printing it out and saving a copy for each of my sons. They have to read it. It would be so much easier if we didn't come into this wisdom when we're fifty or sixty. They get our young people embroiled in their wars before anyone can know any better. By the time some are in it, there's no longer any opportunity to think about what they're doing.

You always make me think. And you give me something else, too:

There are days when politics truly affect me and get me down. Like this latest Sarah Palin thing, which is really not funny at all, though I'm trying to joke about it, along with everyone else, because people I respect, good people, are actually enamoured with her, and somehow can't see the larger picture of what she can do to our country, because they do have good ideals that just cannot be implemented as they wish (through government, I mean). Yet, it's happening , but the results will be so very different than they could possibly imagine.

When I think of all this and where we are going if we don't get the US back into balance between conservative and liberal, I find it hard to bear. I truly do.

My husband cannot understand how all of this can actually take its toll on my outlook. His philosophy is "change what you can, and don't think too hard about the rest." I admire him that he can do that, I wish I could, too.

But, I've always felt (and this is probably why I became a teacher and then a writer) that if I could just influence one person in a positive way, or if by reading and learning, I could be influenced in a positive way, it's worth experiencing the pain of sometimes feeling way too much more than I can contain.

So, when I read your thoughts expressed so eloquently as they are in this post, it's actually a tremendous comfort to me, in a way I don't think I can describe, though I'll try It's like this--. my computer is a window to our entire planet. And when I read the news in the morning, I am in despair sometimes. Then I come over here and read and know that all the way across, on the other side of the earth, you exist.

And that is so very, very good.because if you are there, and I never knew, how many others like you exist everywhere?

By thinking this, I don't feel we're so doomed.

Okay, well that was quite emotional. I guess it's affected me that I've been reading all mornig with no coffee in my system. Nor even any of what Peter's been drinking, either.

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Snowy, thanks for sending me this post.

Why don't we just put both worlds together or simply admit that there is only one world, the universe centric world?

Also, Nietzsche's Will to Power is basically a will of self-realization and self-overcoming. At the heart of this concept, I think, is notion we are apart of the universe and need to think of ourselves as simply a part, not the part. From this truthful realization, we can build a solid foundation for a philosophy of life. And in a sense, as you alluded to, this realization helps us understand that we have a responsibility to help others, the other parts of the universe: Earth, animals, other humans being.

Fantastic post.
I'm going to play devil's advocate a bit, mainly because I am disenchanted by the two-party system here in the States. When Minnesota elected an ex-wrestler and action film actor to the governor's office, it became something of a national joke. But it was noted that Jesse Ventura did what few politicians now in office can do, which was to get young men in the 18 - 30 age bracket away from their Xboxes and into the voting booths. A lot of people here share Vicola's attitude that all politicians want to do is get re-elected so they can retire with a fat government pension. (And it's criminal what members of Congress get in benefits, compared to the average worker who has no health insurance or pension when s/he gets too old or sick to work.) Or they say one thing to the public---"I support schools! Banks should not be allowed to steal the homes of good working class people!"---and do another in the Capitol, as Joe Biden has repeatedly done with any legislation favoring the credit card companies and banks. Biden voted for the changes in the bankruptcy laws that now allow banks and credit cards to take a person's retirement savings, pension and even Social Security checks. I watched him during Obama's acceptance speech in Denver in which Obama criticized credit card companies and mortgage lenders, and the man didn't even flinch. Since he's also been caught plagiarizing other people's speeches and papers, I suppose one shouldn't be surprised: but he is as far as I'm concerned a pathological liar, and he's tainted Obama's candidacy.

Also, I consider myself a libertarian socialist, which doesn't even register among a lot of liberals since it advocates the abolition of free market capitalism. I don't think my views are represented by the Democrats any better than the Republicans; but I will vote for Obama since I refuse to see this country plunged into a Depression likely to rival the one of the 1930s. I think it is terribly depressing however that I have only two options, liberal and conservative. If the US were a real democracy, we'd have more than Tweedledum and Tweedledee to vote for. But in so desperate an election year, I'd be a fool to throw my vote away on a stubborn bit of principle.
geez, Snowy, you must have gotten a hold of the good stuff, because this is one hell of a post

Steven keeps asking me why i've started to give a crap all of the sudden (especially since we don't live in the US anymore - why let it all bother me)

like you've mentioned here, i think in order to survive, i've gotta know - and participate in my own way - and do my bit to write all about it - and get the news out there - along with my take on it

because, frankly, i see too many suckers - like the ones out there who are suckered in my Gov. Palin - or the ones out there who whined incessantly about Clinton losing and are sabotaging themselves and the rest of the world by threatening not to vote, or vote for McCain (i KNOW people who are doings this - both friends and family) - and it all disgusts me to no end

i can no longer hide from it all - i can't stick my head in the sand and pretend it will all go away (at least for longer than a few days)

so i keep writing - like you do

and make lite of it to deal - as Patricia said

but in the end, the people who get elected are the ones who are going to be sending other people out to die for their beliefs

and seeing as the people who've been doing that lately in the US seemingly have no regard for human life (except for the ones who aren't born yet)...

it's not going to go away

and Trumbo excerpt is right on

life is everything

and we've got to figure out where we stand and how we want to live it in this global community

*sigh*


Thank you.

So why aren't Christians loving other people? Loving the environment? Taking care of that which we possess?

But many are. They just don't get the same publicity as the wackos who disgrace Christianity.

About sin. In my FNP post last week I quoted Will and Ariel Durant, "Probably every vice was once a virtue --- i.e., a quality making for the survival of the individual, the family, or the group. Man’s sins may be the relics of his rise rather than the stigmata of his fall."

My belief is that religions invented sin so that they could save us from it, thereby giving the religions a reason for being.


I think the majority do go into politics motivated by high ideals, but it is true that there are many who are more motivated by ego than anything else. W case in point.
Thank you for those kind words, Patricia. Blogging is very much a two way street, where we learn so much from each other. It pleases me that we have comments here from people all over the world each contributing in their own way, and each taking something from the comments of others. Technology has made the world a smaller place, and allowed us to reach greater mutual understanding. I like to think that as the world moves closer to appreciating the environment in which we live, it also moves towards Einstein's religion.

I hope your sons do get something from the post, because it is my hope that in clarifying my own thoughts I just may bring some clarity to others who may be searching for truth as I was in my younger days. I see many posts from the young on Vox which are really a cry for help. I was made aware yesterday that there is a suicide on average every five hours in Australia.

If, somewhere in this world, my words bring comfort, and hopefully enlightenment, to some troubled soul, then that alone will have made it all worthwhile. My hope is that while creating my own personal philosophy that it will serve as starting point for others to create theirs.

Regarding your political concerns, I hope you can take comfort from Will Durant's words:

It is a mistake to think that the past is dead. Nothing that has ever happened is quite without influence at this moment. The present is merely the past rolled up and concentrated in this second of time. You, too, are your past; often your face is your autobiography; you are what you are because of what you have been; because of your heredity stretching back into forgotten generations; because of every element of environment that has affected you, every man or woman that has met you, every book that you have read, every experience that you have had; all these are accumulated in your memory, your body, your character, your soul. So with a city, a country, and a race; it is its past, and cannot be understood without it.

Perhaps the cause of our contemporary pessimism is our tendency to view history as a turbulent stream of conflicts - between individuals in economic life, between groups in politics, between creeds in religion, between states in war. This is the more dramatic side of history; it captures the eye of the historian and the interest of the reader. But if we turn from that Mississippi of strife, hot with hate and dark with blood, to look upon the banks of the stream, we find quieter but more inspiring scenes: women rearing children, men building homes, peasants drawing food from the soil, artisans making the conveniences of life, statesmen sometimes organizing peace instead of war, teachers forming savages into citizens, musicians taming our hearts with harmony and rhythm, scientists patiently accumulating knowledge, philosophers groping for truth, saints suggesting the wisdom of love. History has been too often a picture of the bloody stream. The history of civilization is a record of what happened on the banks.





Thanks, Koios. Yes, building from the wreckage Nietzsche created is what I am trying to do. And you anticipate me well. Moving mankind from a human centric world to a universe centric world is what I'm about. This may take a while...
Yes, we can have our political ideals, but making them fit into the existing structure is quite a stretch, so we have to make do with what we have. If we could implement Plato's republic that would sit well with me. Sadly, I don't see too many suitable philosophers around who would fill the bill, although Obama shows some promise.
Yes, it must have been the good stuff, Paikea. I can't remember what it was this morning, though...

I have had conservatives take me to task on my blog for daring to comment on .U.S. politics. They don't seem to understand that the rest of the world has a stake in the outcome of the Presidential election too. Other countries, including my own, meekly followed Bush into Iraq. If that buffoon had not been elected President, hundreds of thousands of people would be alive today.

So we must be involved, Paikea. We must give support to those many fine people in the U.S. who are just as affronted by the actions of the conservatives as we are.

[this is good]
I know we aren't in each other's neighborhoods, but thanks for sending me the post. It's extremely good and I love the first quote that got you thinking =)
True words and another comfort. Thank you.
[this is good]
Wow! What a way to start a new week - thanks for posting and sending.
Thanks for sending me the link, Snowy. It's a fantastic post with a lot for me to think about.

I'm still in such a shock that the idiots in my country voted Bush in TWICE that I'm only now starting to pull my head out of it's soft sandy hole and start paying attention to politics again.

Sadly, I can easily see the same huge amount of idiots voting for Bush again -- woops, sorry, voting for McCain. And the powers that be cheating, lieing and arranging things so that non-republican votes don't count.
It's all very demoralizing and exhausting, yet somehow intelligent posts such as this one of yours manage to rev me up again.
Thanks
Thanks, I'm glad you got something out of it. So far as politics is concerned, all we can do is participate in the public debate, and support the party that best aligns with our interests. Then retreat back to the universe centric world in order to retain our sanity.

I've just made my speech to the R.N.C. which you may care to read. I don't think it went over too well with the fat white men there. Which is good.
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It will take me days to read all your thoughts. My over all reaction to your post is bravo! I'm afraid you are correct in that the repubs will win again through all their cheating etc. I'm considering leaving as I can't take any more of the repubs being in control. Disaster!
Thanks. Hope you find something of use in my ramblings.

And we ain't beat yet, oh ye of little faith! We shall overcome, and all that...
[this is good]
An instant favorite.

"...we must be wary of those in our group who demand obligations, but are careless with the truth when attempting to convince us of the benefits."
Spot on. I can't get over how accurately that describes what it's like to be an American listening to the Bush administration try to explain anything.

"...they use religion to control the masses by superstition masquerading as supernaturally enforced morality."
Yeah, whenever a human is killed by a fellow human, with weapons made by fellow humans, over disputes created by fellow humans... even then, it is God's doing, God's morality being enforced. Interesting, though, that when it's a Christian who gets killed, it's no longer God metering justice but another inarguable reason we need to go around delivering God's retribution.

I'd love for the world's pseudo-Christians to finally see themselves for what they are, but how can we expect people who can't even follow a simple rule like "do unto others as you'd have them to unto you" to even begin to comprehend Nietzsche? His notion that morals can exist independently of God might likely send them into the very fits of nihilistic insanity Nietzsche feared so!

As always, excellent stuff. And I'm not even high. :-P
Thanks Kirk. It all seems so bleeding obvious to me that people in the U.S. are being suckered again by the right wing machine. That a female Bush clone can command such a following just staggers me.

"That a female Bush clone can command such a following just staggers me."

I know. It kills me, too, to see otherwise intelligent and respectable people making excuses for her simply because their party says they should. I don't blame them for not just up and shifting to the other side, but this fervent apologizing for someone who is so obviously out of her league is, as you say, staggering.

But just as Dan Quayle ensured GHW Bush would never be president, so too will Sarah Palin prove to be McCain's final undoing. That, or the electoral process in my country is irretrievably corrupted. I remain optimistic, though.
I remain cautiously optimistic too, but those polls will need to start turning around soon. With an imploding economy you'd think it'd be a no brainer for an Obama landslide, but apparently a happy clapper woman who lives close to Russia and can shoot moose has all the answers. I did say cautiously optimistic.
Not to suddenly take the conversation to the level of pithiness, but I sincerely wish more people understood the significance of killing as a hobby. All the protestations about how hunters use what they kill doesn't negate the sickening implications sent by their giant grins as they pose so proudly over the suffering carcass of a fellow mammal as it bleeds out in the snow. Those kinds of hunters don't hunt for food or clothing. They hunt because they like to kill.

And that's certainly NOT a mentality I want running my country.
I agree. While hunting skills were necessary for survival over the millions of years of our evolution, so too was the skill necessary to kill threatening humans. As man discovered reason as a better survival tool, he had to suppress the kill instinct buried deep in his psyche. The people who enjoy killing are showing their inability to use reason. That is why they are dangerous, and appeal to others who still listen to their kill instincts rather than reason.

Palin is showing her intellectual shallowness, and inability to appreciate the wonder of the world around us. That she shows no understanding of global warming is no surprise. By giving her oxygen to parade her ignorance as a virtue McCain has taken the U.S., the world, and mankind a giant step backwards.

Wow, man. That was good. I got nothing after that but a rapidly nodding noggin.
You are wise beyond your years. Great post!
Thanks, WPG. Glad you got something from it.

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Snowy

About Me

Snowy
Australia
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is hard business. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.": Rudyard Kipling - (1865-1936)

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